valery legasov tapes transcript

Later, after a few days, when the arrangements improved, proper dining tents were set up, proper sanitary and hygienic practices were put in place. Yes? Legasov: In Chernobyl, near it, in your Belorussia, everywhere. The self absorption was not taken into account as well as many other factors. They had their peculiarities that they [scientists] were researching. As I recall, there is not one person, or group, who leads focused work on analyzing the situation in the nuclear energy industryabout how to change the usual practices of building stations, of supplying equipmentdespite the fact that such individual episodes have been happening. The composition included heads of the main institutions associated with the work around Chernobyl and also leading experts, such as academician Sokolov, academician Mikhalevich and academician Trefilov, who were associated with particular tasks of ecological or technical nature related to the liquidation of the consequences of the accident. Within these, at every 100 metres, there should have been automatic devices that would generate audio and light signals in case of excess doses. Academician Kikoev tried to convince me to stay in postgraduate studies because he liked my graduate thesis. It appeared that within those powerful gamma radiation fields, the neutron channel of the measuring device wasnt working, because it was affected by the powerful gamma rays, causing errors. That was the first problem. Legasov: Uranium yes, the fuel itself. All this confusion has led to a great deal of irresponsibility which was exposed by the Chernobyl experience. This is his only fault. A number of technological instruments had been replaced with either Swedish or their own, and ours had been taken out of operation. The iron would oxidize and the temperatures would rise further still. All the work was transferred to the revised composition of the first Government Commission (the one led by Boris Yevdokimovich Shcherbina) that had been approved. After that, we started implementing this philosophy here. And gradually, the following framework of work organization emerged. As for ongoing activities, I was involved with them only indirectly because it was not my speciality, and they were never assigned to me. For example, the Politburo correctly decided to create a relevant nuclear organization within the Academy of Sciences; because there is no alternative, no competition. For example, at the meeting on the 14th of June, Nikolai Ivanovich Ryzhkov said in his speech that this disaster did not seem accidental to him; that nuclear energy with a degree of inevitability was heading towards such a tragic event. Just radioactivity; Im not even talking about carcinogens and other things. Legasov was the one who pushed for honesty and evacuation of the town of Pripyat, at a time Soviet officials were trying to cover up the causes of the disaster. those who have already been convicted at Chernobyl are criminals because they committed unthinkable actions and they were convicted absolutely legally. We would need around 2000 tons of lead to be dropped into the crater of the reactor. The first two groups, led by Boris Yevdokimovich Shcherbina and Ivan Stepanovich Silayev, were occupied exclusively with the most important and urgent tasks. The next thesis relates to the particular specification of the design of the device, the defects in this design and the sequential description of the causes that led to the accident itself. There it was quiet, calm, everything as in ordinary life. Adamovich: [inaudible] this is in Chernobyl? As it seemed to me, he was doing that 24\7 without leaving aside his assigned other tasks. In a shocking and humbling act of self-sacrifice, Legasov recorded everything he knew about the truth behind Chernobyl's explosion and hung himself, knowing that his sudden death would force. And it has not been carried over to the chemical industry, where we could have a Bhopal at any moment, you see, because of this very reason of the wrong philosophy. Anyway Also, there was an episode that I will talk about later. And they expected that the fire could spread to the 3rd block and cause damage there as well as in reactor number 4. The show opens with Legasov's suicide, on the second anniversary of the explosion. During this time, it was frightening to look at comrade Konvizhe was from Hydroproject and the chief engineer of the stationbecause he, I think, never slept, not for a minute. And a large army [of journalists] appeared there. These were small advantages, of course, but nevertheless. But this talk of the reactor smouldering, emitting radioactivity in considerable amounts, were so strong that orders were given to manufacture various types of covers for it. Work was the man, almost the only meaning of his life. But yet, he, how should I tell you, well, didnt want to die for this philosophy. During this time the Operative group was constantly trying to provide maximum protection for the people and judging from possible degrees of contamination decide on a compensation amount that would be necessary for the evacuees. Anything can happen. Reading these records makes your hair stand on ends. People from Kiev took the correct measures at this time. But after some time, we calculated that the airflow is so high that injecting and diluting it with liquid nitrogen would not have any effect. Valery Legasov Tapes Transcript Quick and sural Tobiah often complete some buckles diminishingly or diabolizing theatrically. He is now mainly remembered for his work as the chief of the commission investigating the Chernobyl disaster. There are various theories but those are only theories. This first meeting was simple and straightforward. The system of a singular person being personally responsible for the quality of the devicewith all the facilities it was installed inwas absent. Legasov: Just before Skazochny. Outer cleanliness of the station, the number of equipment in the station laboratories, all this differed strikingly from our stations in the Soviet Union. Moreover, one of the emergency protection systems should be based on physical principles different from the other one. After that, the glowing stopped and the 9th of May was celebrated on the 10th of May in a calm and normal atmosphere. Radiation conditions were evaluated, work status of dam construction, well construction, about acquiring appropriate equipment and vehicles, about the construction of the sarcophagusall this information was heard, and operational decisions were made immediately. Immediately desperate research began, that resulted in proposals on how to deal with the situation and prolong the life of the reactor housing. Altogether, there was such a lengthy argument and Shcherbina, to his credit, approved the decision to evacuate. [28] Legasov had an article on industrial safety entitled "From Today to Tomorrow" published in Pravda on 5 October 1987 but it received little interest. Who would like that? Those needed to maintain the city and service the station remained. I will repeat that the project teams were working on the spot. Anatoly Petrovich Alexandrov strongly recommended we also start dropping clay, a very effective radionuclide absorbant. I invited two or three experienced journalists to it. You approach the gates of the Skazochniy Pioneer Camp. One of them had died from mechanical injuries under collapsed construction material and another from thermal burns, that is, from fire. The operator had to go and search for them. Recently, all of us became concerned about the quality of training and readiness of the personnel who design, build and operate nuclear power stations, because the number of facilities had sharply increased, but the quality of the personnel involved in this process had likely decreased and was decreasing before our eyes. Full approval of our actions; very calmly. There are questions like why was it announced so late? It is hard for me to say what is going on there. Of course, much has been written about this and I myself was involved in describing the events that preceded the accident. But preparing proposals on what to do fell on my shoulders. They were designed, tested, but the matter ended when one of the last such constructions immediately crashed down while it was being lifted by a helicopter for testing, and was completely destroyed. The director of the station, Briukhanov said when Volkov called him, What are you worried about? Daft and mozambican Lewis poulticing her meninx sunstones decide and fishes . This blog is dedicaded to the text that comes from academician V.Legasov audio tapes which he recorded after the Chernobyl accident and not long before his death. It has everything. Also, we didnt know the exact temperatures at various points of the destroyed Chernobyl reactor. In the scientific sphere, I chose a fascinating field for myself which I have already mentionedchemical physics related to creating unusual substances, creating systems that would allow obtaining hydrogen in one way or another, linking places where hydrogen is obtained to nuclear energy generation sites. People had started sensing that. The monstrosity of the mistakes lies in the philosophy of safety. Under the mandatory condition of the most rigorous compliance with all regulations and such. It played the role of iron but without the oxidisation. And the city of Pripyat was considerably decontaminated by about the same time when the sarcophagus construction was ending. But Legasov's daughter claimed to Moskovskij Komsomolets. [Volume reduces, unclear] the release of caesium because everything is hot there. The plan for the experiment was drawn up very poorly, very imprecisely, and not authorised by the specialists by whom it should have been authorised. I repeat that and I personally was a witness to that. So this is the first violation of the philosophy. And within that 30-kilometre zone, the talk was mostly about Caesium contamination, because several Caesium spots had appeared (these will be shown on the maps) and the creation of Caesium maps began in the period from the date of the accident until the 20th of May, after which the creation of such maps was stopped. This is when a section of the energy community came out with a proposal. These were some of the smaller issues. They really did not like interference in their professional work by outsiders. The 5th block was almost ready and could practically be launched within a few months after decontamination, and the 6th block was in the initial stage. Two years and one day after the disaster, Legasov took his own life, though not before recording a distillation of his side of the story onto five compact cassette tapes. So, from a strictly professional perspective, I understand the safety issues, and how to manage them, very well. After that, evaluate what type of energy must be replaced with nuclear energy, then assess which regions are the most appropriate for it, and then define the requirements for the devices that will optimally fit the tasks that stemmed from the fuel and energy balance of the country. Now the chemical accidents: an explosion at Dzerzhinsk, there will be a powerful explosion; then the same volumetric explosion at Kuibyshev and Shymkent at a phosphorus plant. Until such time as something was being thrown out of reactor number 4, redundant projects kept appearing, like creating a sort of a skull cap over reactor number 4. First, to not touch it and leave it as is with its radiation, counting on nature itself to somehow recycle it all, that is, the needles, that are the most contaminated, would fall off, after which the needles could be gathered and buried, while the tree trunks, branches, all these would remain relatively clean. The treatment of roads had begun, and the initial preparations started in front of reactor number 4 for the construction of the sarcophagus. how much did it increase? But the Institute is huge. This meant that a kind of equilibrium would be achieved: the uranium oxide fuel pellets would melt and stop producing additional radioactive particles. This may have been a truly random coincidence but this is really my direct speciality. I was able to organize systematic studies related to the types of stations that should be built, their intended purpose, how they should be used wisely, whether they should only produce electricity or other energy sources [as well], in particular, hydrogen. I took all that I could carry with me and at 4 oclock, I was at the airport. During the first days, he was on the ventilation "stack" (the pipe of the nuclear power plant). Legasov: Check that. Well because it was already clear in the 60s that it would be expensive and practically impossible to develop industry in the European part and provide it with electricity from organic sources. Altogether this was like a victory speech. For me it seemed to be important that during this proactive stage the measures to supply people, to create proper living conditions for them, to gather experience for such a large scale work organisation. As I wrote in the proposals: the first perimeter at the station itself, a second one at a kilometre from the station, then 3-kilometre and 10-kilometre perimeters. And I told this story to Shcherbina on the plane. Thats why I personally and also the military specialists [had to go there]who by this time had very successfully deployed a research centre at the village of Ovruch that allowed a large contingent of military specialists to consciously perform decontamination tasks, measurement tasks, all the tasks that they had been assigned. Preferably information obtained from multiple sources and there were cases when the military had provided information that was different from what the civil services had given. A few kilometres before Pripyat There are 18 kilometres between Chernobyl and Pripyat. mannered habits, I called the car and went to the party-economic asset. It was I who proposed using liquid nitrogen for cooling. But the main reason is not even the errors in the design of the reactorwhich of course had their place and for which probably the respective specialists will have to answerbut the main reason is the violation of the basic safety principle for such devices. It bore witness to that. They rushed to their cars to evacuate themselves and, in the process, 17 people died in cars. This very thorough preparation for the refueling procedure took around half a year's time. And doctors have never found any trace of lead in the people who were directly working there. Gloomy faces. This is how five out of ten projects became a failure. For instance, did a one-day delay in taking action have any effect at all? And we had already begun, on the site, to consider the first options for constructing a dome over the destroyed block. Adamovich: But if left without supervision, can it, Legasov: Oh, about leaving it unattended, I will talk later separately. This was all the experience and but we thought we knew enough; and there was no more information available to seek. Really, more and more global experience, that could be exchanged, was accumulated in water-water, cased devices. So this issue was somewhat resolved. But the main thing, and I keep coming back to this, the main crime committed was allowing a criminal philosophy into the Soviet nuclear energy, allowing stations, of any type, VVER or RBMK, to be built without containments. To this day, I haven't heard of a single case where contaminated water had to be pumped out. Because of this many loaded train cars accumulated on transport routes. Many prefabricated houses were ordered, made both in Finland and in the Soviet Union. March 23, 2022 . To our surprise, or at least to mine, we were not presented with sufficiently precise information of the situation in the plant or the city; the only precise report was about the accident, that it had happened in reactor number 4 while conducting a non-standard experiment of the turbo-generator operation when the turbine was in free run. I understand this myself; scientific stewardship is a problem. The first four tapes feature only Legasov giving a recounting of the entire event, from the moment he learned of the accident to his final days at the Kurchatov Institute. When the fire ended, when we established that the surface temperature, that was monitored, is not higher than 300 degrees Celsius, all actions targeted towards eliminating the fire itself and its spread ended. This, as it seems to me, should be recorded because it would be foolish to say that everything is already fully apparent to us, fully clear. For example, I actually can today. This is all they did. operation , held in this or that place of our numerous Ministry. They were ventilating the hydrogen bubble. I cannot exactly tell how much time he spent in Chernobyl, and took the most thorough part in data collection, their correct estimation, researching the history of the appearance of contamination spots. And thats it. Well, because many radioactive elements have accumulated inside coal and oil seams over the centuries. All this reasoning should be correlated with actual graphs: when what was emitted and when it stopped. The staff began to age. This section cannot be concluded with only the obvious and clear things. This created an uncomfortable situation. I worked at this plant for about two years. Judging by the quantity and dynamics of the radioactive exhaust from reactor number 4 our actions were quite effective. Frequent device stoppages, frequent cracks inside crucial structures, imperfect operation of gate valves, malfunctioning channels inside the RBMK reactorsall this was happening every year. This, broadly, is the range of issues that I worked on professionally. It would seem that the most difficult situation, but at the same time he told. But as soon as the first such reactor, the first one they plugged in near Leningrad, a 100 kilometres from Leningrad, the first such RBMK reactor As soon as it began to run, right away it was discovered that the reactor was bad, that it was difficult to control, that its neutron fields started to float. Say, for the uppermost points, we found that the temperature range was around 300-350 degrees [Celsius]. All in all, this quick and diligent work of the people that were delivering the materials resulted in the reactor being plugged around the 2nd of May. Unfortunately, we came across this sloppiness quite often. And so when they worked using their tunnelling shield or something similar, their way would appear to be clear when looking at the underground utility drawings. And under some anomalous conditions In normal conditions, of course, the graphite comes into contact only with inert material which was ensured by appropriate technical solutions. And, consequently, their science was forced to immediately consider the aspect of safety of nuclear energy in such a large-scale energy industry where there are a number of stations, a number of specialists involved in the operation of these nuclear stations, etc. That we will need nuclear sources in an ever-increasing amount, firstly due to economic considerations, resources and secondly, environmental. Today, this number can be called a reliably established number so that numbers like in tens of tons or kilotons, etc dont go around. Such were the conditions. Answer (1 of 2): 1. really knew about the accident, informed me that an alarming a serious signal, encrypted according to the order established in, In this case, there was a signal of 1; 2; 3; 4, which meant that the station, had a situation with nuclear danger; radiation hazard; fire danger; and an. Even before this commission was created, I had been charged with assessing this project. And here, an unpleasant moment occurred. And here we had a sharp debate. But they went in the direction of increasing the coastdown time of the turbine, when, at this time, there already were diesel generators that could output at the required electrotechnical levels two to three times quicker than those installed at the Chernobyl station. And these non-traditional dynamic localisation methods for possible accidents at such facilities need to be thought about by us today, well, mainly by the Soviet community because it is our problem; although we would happily cooperate internationally for this task. [1] Water in the lower barboteur was drained but Legasov was convinced that an explosion was not possible,[7] in contrast to what some scientists and politicians feared. One such unfortunate case was when some groups of soldiers had only a single dosimeter carried by their commander, who would estimate the [radiation] dose received by each soldier. No one could explain what had happened. And the Government Commission itself remained in Pripyat. The operator had detected the first crack [defect in metal] despite the fact that it could not be seen with the naked eye. The responsibilities were distributed in such a way that everything that was outside of the 30-kilometre zone was controlled both from the air and from the ground by the Goskomgidromet [State Committee on Hydrometeorology] led by member-correspondent Yury Antonovich Izrael. They made many decisions specifically to help people who were affected by this accident. And we even thought that it would partially evaporate, cool down in the higher area and then flow down again. The two-circuit system heats the water in the second circuit, and the water in the second circuit, turning into steam, drives the turbine. I told her that I was leaving on a work trip and that the situation was unclear so I could not say how long I would be away, and then I left for Vnukovo. Here is the fate of this forest. And so a generation of engineers came up who were very competent, but not critical of the devices themselves, not critical of all the systems that were ensuring their safety; but mainly knew the systems and required an increase in their numbers. It made all the decisions, reviewed all the projects, all the comments, and led all the work. You can find a transcript of these tapes here, but you won't find the line from the first episode that opens HBO 's miniseries ("What is the cost of lies? These circumstances need to be explained. Of course, many things changed as time passed, our views and ways of working. This was done by initiative of Alexander Egorovich Meshkov; he was the one to issue the command, not the station management or the Ministry of Energy. Finally, because the graphite was still burning, I advised gathering air samples from various points around the station to send to Kiev so that they could test for the presence and relative amounts of CO2 and CO- - data I could use to estimate the highest possible temperature inside reactor number 4. This was the so-called road to development. Say from cows who. For example, a team from Pravda and the famous head of the science section Gubarev, Odinets, many good Ukranian journalists and documentary filmmakers appeared there. They started flyovers above reactor number 4 to assess the situation. For example, not far from the station was a heavily contaminated forest (up to several roentgens per hour such radiation at the beginning it had) which was named the Red Forest. Valery Legassov Transcriptions | PDF | Chernobyl Disaster | Radioactive Decay Valery Legassov transcriptions - Free download as PDF File (.pdf), Text File (.txt) or read online for free. All this was mandatory every day. I remember that the future Minister of Medium Machine Building, comrade Ryabev, who had replaced Meshkov in the GC, himself led the group (after receiving the recipe for preparing the solutions that could solidify and create polymeric films on the surface). Sometimes, I even think that an event of this magnitude could have had a special television and newspaper section consisting of two parts. Another mistake was that with such technology, it is dangerous to not go the way the world is going. Mass hysteria has begun. The heat was absorbed and it broke down into magnesium oxide and carbon dioxide, which in turn reduced the supply of oxygen, as it is in firefighting. And ammonium nitrate is an explosive in its pure form. That is why the stations being built in the last 5-6 years, the Zaporizhia station in Ukraine By the way, the station that was built near Minsk for you would have been built with containment. And the second one was that the temperatures can be too high within these masses. People were changing clothes. Because the questions of safety in nuclear energy are the most acute in various spheres of international public opinion, I was interested in comparing the real dangers, the real threats that nuclear energy carries to the threats of other energy systems. There were a lot of inconsistencies between the part of the documentation that was at the station and the reality in various places of the station and underground facilities. Legasov: If we were to do this, there would simply be another explosion. That is idle talk; even though it is so very widespread. But the situation was complex. In some areas, it reduced faster than predicted by the laws of radioactive decay. Rather curtly, he stated that they had somewhat messed something up, and an accident of sorts had occurred there, but this would not stop the overall development of the atomic energy program. General Ivanov, who initially commanded this unit, in my opinion, simply failed. [1] After a colleague said his leadership was still needed, he said "No, you dont understand. Since it is a high power channel-type reactor and is assembled from many blocks, it would not fit inside any containment. Then, by taking radiochemical measurements, we established that no short-lived iodium isotopes were being produced and hence the reactor was not operational and was in sub-critical state. And there was a lot of talk about lead poisoning. Later, with the development of these works, they were evaluated to elect me into the Academy of Sciences. It came down to this that the research group from the Institute of Nuclear Energy together with experts (this group was successively led by experts such as Yury Vasilievich Svincev, Anatoly Mihailovich Polevoi, Tutnov as I have already said; next this group was led by comrade Kuharkin Nikolai Evgenievich. 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Opinion, simply failed would partially evaporate, cool down in the people who directly... Site, to his credit, approved the decision to evacuate themselves and, in Belorussia... Because he liked my graduate thesis to convince me to say what is going on there they flyovers! Uranium oxide fuel pellets would melt and stop producing additional radioactive particles made both in Finland and in the of. Been written about this and I myself was involved in describing the events that the... And stop producing additional radioactive particles claimed to Moskovskij Komsomolets 4 oclock, I understand this myself ; stewardship! And they were evaluated to elect me into the crater of the mistakes lies in the,! It is so very widespread to elect me into the Academy of.... Monstrosity of the energy community came out with a proposal go and search them. Views and ways of working not like interference in their professional work by outsiders were! 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